July 1997
Note: the only changes done to the original copy I received from Garry are :

    1. Lines numbers have been deleted but respected like in original copy.
    2. Pages numbers have been transferred from bottom to top of the pages
    3. Due to my french mother language, I cannot be sure not having missed proofreads

French part translation could be done 

See also the comments done by two critics about Garry Scarff affidavits here

[page 1]


I, GARRY L. SCARFF, being duly sworn, hereby deposes and


    1. I am a citizen of the United states of America, a

resident of Florida, and over the age of 18. The statements herein

are made of my own personal knowledge and, if called as a witness,

I can and will testify competently thereto.

    2. I have not been paid, and I have received no

expenses of any nature, to write this affidavit. Moreover, this

declaration is of my own hand as opposed to other declarations I

have signed in the past which were written by other individuals. I

am doing so on my own free will, void of any threat, deception or


    3. In the last four years, I have experienced enormous

pressure and harassment from the Church of Scientology

International since giving deposition testimony in the case of

Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz.  Because

of sworn testimony I provided that was damaging to the Scientology

organization, and upheld by the court in response to Scientology's

conspicuous efforts to stop me from testifying, the Church has

engaged in a nonstop implementation of harassment and intimidation

geared toward my personal and professional ruin. I believe that

the Church of Scientology was responsible for my being terminated

from a Roman Catholic seminary, my termination from employment at

Walt Disney World and my recent termination from an insurance

company.  I fear the loss of my current employment because the

Church of Scientology is a major client of my employer and is bait

for professional intimidation by the Church. In fact, I have 


observed a notarized declaration by a Florida private investigator

who admits to having been hired to approach my employers at Walt

Disney World and discuss my employment. Recently, Scientology

attorney Elliot Abelson made reference to criminal and credit

checks done on me by church staffers My father was approached at

his home in Florida by an investigator impersonating a police

official and intimidated. Later, church attorneys made untrue

statements to the media about an estrangement between my father

and myself, which did not exist. Members of Scientology's FLAG

Division in Clearwater, Florida also approached and interviewed my

mother in Lakeland, Florida

    4. A Scientology attorney has informed me of continued

surveillance on me. Undue and uninvited pressure has also been

placed on me by church attorney Timothy Bowles who flew from Los

Angeles to Central Florida in an attempt to coerce me to recant my

prior testimony

    5. In February of this year, I assisted a journalistic

team from Germany to Los Angeles to film a documentary on

Scientology. During the three days I was with the team, we endured

the most significant effort ever played out by scientology staff

and private investigators to intimidate the German journalists to

end their documentary project. At one point, the German film crew

sought the assistance of the Los Angeles Police Department to

protect them from the threatening overtures of Scientologists whom

brazenly pursued us to and into a police station where a detective,

after consulting privately with Scientology attorney Elliot

Abelson, turned the German crew away. Recently, Mr. Abelson

informed me that the Scientology organization had the Los Angeles 


Police Department in their 'back pocket" due to large financial

contributions they have made to the LAPD and the relationship they

have with Los Angeles Mayor Riordon.

    6. I saw attorney Abelson again the following month in

Clearwater, Florida where I engaged in a picket on Scientology's

paramilitary headquarters, the Sea Organization and paid tribute to

the suspicious death of a young Scientologist who was starved to

death following her attempts to leave the organization. Mr.

Abelson was friendly, good humored and talkative to me. With

Mr. Abelson was Mike Rinder, a top level Scientology executive whom

was also friendly and non-threatening towards me, and encouraging

me to meet with them to resolve our mutual animosity towards one

another.  Rinder encouraged me to write him a letter and said he

would assist me in any way he could.

    7. In May 1997, I wrote Elliot Abelson a letter

requesting an opportunity to discuss our mutual conflicts and to

end whatever animosity which existed between the Scientology

organization and myself. When Mr. Abelson expressed a willingness

to meet with me under more friendly terms, I consulted with Graham

Berry, the chief attorney in the Fishman-Geertz case and accepted

his offer to represent me in negotiations as my attorney on a pro

bono basis.

    8. Scientology attorney Elliot Abelson communicated to

me that he would not attend any meeting with me as long as Graham

Berry served as my attorney.  Mr. Berry is the object of much hate

and maligning in the Scientology community because of his

successful litigation efforts against the Church of Scientology.

scientology's hatred for Mr. Berry has also been reflected in the 

Page 4

thousands of dollars they've spent investigating Mr. Berry's

personal background and creating deliberately degrading and hurtful

declarations on unethical and illegal acts committed by Mr. Berry,

which have no basis in fact and cannot be substantiated.

    9. Mr. Abelson expressed his "sincere desire" to meet

with me and to do whatever was necessary to remove me from "the

litigation pickle" that I was in, if I cooperated fully with him.

Mr. Abelson directed me to fire Mr. Berry as my attorney and wrote

in a letter that he had received communications from Mr. Berry,

which Berry denies, that Mr. Berry sought me out as a client

because of his ability to coerce me into working as a witness in

future cases involving Scientology, and that Mr. Berry expressed no

real desire to help me.

    10. Pursuant to the offer made by Mr. Abelson, I fired

Mr. Berry and signed a declaration provided to me by Mr. Abelson

that I was not represented by any lawyer. Mr. Abelson said it was

impossible to meet with me without it. Mr. Abelson also sent me a

letter advising me that I should keep secret the planning of the

meeting, all communications with him, and the meeting itself

secret. I chose to ignore Abelson and spoke freely to Mr. Berry

about my intentions and I believe, sent him copies of Mr. Abelson's

letters to me as well. I did not want to be caught up in the

covert histrionics that Scientology tends itself to when

participating in intelligence activity.

11. Initially Mr. Abelson and I tried to decide on a

mutual date when we would meet in Clearwater, the Church of

Scientology's headquarters for its paramilitary division, the Sea

Organization. Mr. Abelson then pressured me to fly to Los Angeles to 


meet with him. In his first call to me regarding coming to Los

Angeles, he implied the opportunity to come to Los Angeles for a

"nice, relaxing weekend" which entailed by flying from Florida to

California on Friday night and returning Sunday morning.  Relaxing,

indeed! Because of the pressures of my employment where I had

recently transferred to another department, I suggested holding off

for several weeks so that I could become accustomed to my new

position and some of the pressures of change were absorbed in my

life. Mr. Abelson said "No, that is not possible" and again

pressured me to spend my Independence Day weekend in Los Angeles

with him.

    12. In response to Mr Abelson's overtures, I flew to

Los Angeles, where I was picked up by a member of the Church of

Scientology, and taken to the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel in downtown

Hollywood, arriving the night of July 3rd. Although Mr. Abelson

and I had mutually agreed that there would be no games played, and

that I would not be harassed by members of the church, I soon

learned that "Charlie," the gentleman whom picked me up at the

airport and played host for my visit, was, in fact, exercising the

Scientology policy of "handling" me. I posed a number of questions

to Charlie about the arrangements of my visit, which he stated he

had no knowledge of. Shortly after checking in to my hotel, I

decided to walk around downtown Hollywood, whereby my host decided

to walk with me. We had dinner together. During dinner there were

a couple of occasions when Charlie excused himself to go to the

bathroom. On one such occasion, I followed him and stood outside

the bathroom door just around the corner out of what would be his

eyesight. A moment later I heard him on the telephone giving a 


[page 6]

report to someone about what I was doinq, what I intended to do

that night, what I was talkinq about and an acknowledgement that I

was under surveillance.  I expressed the desire to Charlie to visit

the L. Ron Hubbard Museum on Hollywood Boulevard, a few blocks from

my hotel.  Charlie informed me that the museum was closed. When I

told him that I wanted to walk down by it anyway, Charlie informed

me that Elliot Abelson had "ordered" me to "stay away from the

building" and that I was "well hated" by other Scientologists and

that my safety could not be insured entering a Scientology

building. Later, Elliot Abelson informed me that Michael Rinder I

would be extremely angry with me if I entered any Scientoloqy

buildinq or center.  After dinner, I went back to the hotel, was

advised by Charlie that Elliot Abelson would arrive at the hotel

the next morning at 9:00 am. and we would drive to whatever

location our meeting was to be held I then bid Charlie good night

and watched him leave the hotel as I took the elevator to my room.

Several hours later, as I returned to my room after filling an ice

bucket, I was surprised to see Charlie in the hotel and accessing

the room directly across from my room.

13. On Friday morning, July 4, I went outside to the

valet parking area to wait for Elliot Abelson when I ran into

Charlie who told me that Elliot "instructed" me to wait inside the

hotel for him. At approximately 10:00 a.m., Charlie said that

Elliot Abelson was upstairs waiting for me. I took an elevator

upstairs and I was walked to the room directly across from mine

which Charlie said was where our meetings were to be held.

Entering the room, I observed there was a large suite adjoining the

room that had video and audio taping equipment set up. The locked 

[page 7]

door in my room which . Charlie told me was "probably a closet" was,

in fact, an access door from this conference room into my room. As

I entered the room, I was greeted by attorney Abelson and

scientology paralegal Ken Long whom I remembered had sat with

scientology attorneys during my deposition in the Fishman/Geertz


    14. Mr. Abelson said that he wanted me to be as

comfortable as I could, taking into account my AIDS condition, and

that he wanted to ask me questions in a laid-back and relaxed

manner. Mr. Abelson questioned me specifically on two topics : my

testimony in the Fishman/Geertz case and my work with the German

journalists making the documentary in Los Angeles. I stressed that

I wanted a scientology executive present during questioning and

would not cooperate with him if this previously agreed to condition

was not met. Mr. Abelson swore that he did not know the

whereabouts of Mike Rinder but that he would try to find him and

that other scientology attorneys whose presence I requested were

out of town for the holiday weekend.

    15. In my conversations with Mr Abelson, I related the

tremendous pressure, stress, and heartache that I had endured as a

result of ever becoming involved in the battles between scientology

and their perceived enemies, that both sides were at fault, and

that I just wanted to live my life in peace, acknowledging the

rights and freedoms of Scientologists and non-scientologists. Mr.

Abelson asked pointed questions which alluded to my former attorney

Graham Berry having knowingly participated in a criminal conspiracy

in defending the Fishman/Geertz case. I replied that I did not

know of any criminal or unethical activities conducted, conspired 

[page 8]

or performed by Graham Berry. At this point, Mr. Abelson called

for a break and ordered the cameras turned of.

    16. During the break, Elliot Abelson asked me about

several people that I had testified about in my deposition,

including Adrian & Anne Greek of Portland, Oregon.  Although my

relationship with the Greeks figured heavily in my depositions in

the Fishman/Geertz case, and in a lawsuit filed against the

National Cult Awareness Network, Mr. Abelson said he didn't know

anything about them because he'd only been a church attorney for 4

years Mr Abelson also informed me that he had read my testimony

and wanted to know how I could expertly testify to the knowledge of

certain exhibits in my Fishman/Geertz testimony since I had not

been present at the time or place where the documents were created,

and by my testifying to the accuracy of them, I was guilty of

perjury and lying under oath. I told Mr Abelson that Mr. Berry

had actually shown them to me and that I recognized them as

Scientology documents from my having had possession of them myself,

or from my own individual experience in Scientology, I recognized

them.  Whether they were introducible into evidence or not was a

question that I left to the attorneys.

    17. Mr Abelson informed me that he brought me to Los

Angeles to remedy my conflicts with the Church of Scientology and

if I cooperated openly and fully, I would be in a position where no

party would be able to involve me in litigation, including that of

Graham Berry. Mr. Abelson again asked me questions that he had

asked on-camera and that I denied. When I reiterated what I said

before, Mr Abelson became short-tempered and said that I was

manipulating him by not being truthful I sensed from him an 

[page 9]

intention to back down from every condition we had established to

my coming to Los Angeles and to play a manipulative game intended

to use me as a weapon for Scientology to use to hurt others. My

suspicions were later confirmed to me in the form of declarations.

    18. Mr Abelson and I went back to the suite and continued

our conversation on film and audio with Mr. Abelson calling an end

to the taping at 4:30 p.m. stating that he had a dinner engagement

with his wife that evening. Mr Abelson suggested that Charlie and

I go to a movie theater and see "Face-Off" starring John Travolta,

a member and celebrity spokesman for the Church of Scientology. We

did this at the expense of the Church of Scientology.

    19. The next morning, I went to the suite for what was

supposed to be a 10:00 meeting with Mr. Abelson. We actually did

not meet until nearly 3 hours later. Because of the time that had

been wasted for me to continue our meeting, I decided to leave the

hotel and play "tourist" until Mr. Abelson was physically present

at the hotel and prepared to begin our meeting. I told my

host/driver that I wanted to go have lunch at an outside cafe in

West Hollywood which we did. At approximately 12:30 p.m. in the

middle of our meals, Charlie received a beeper page and he went

inside the restaurant to make a call. He then came rushing out of

the restaurant stating that Elliot Abelson was ready to meet with

me again. I responded that I was kept rudely waiting all morning,

that I was in the middle of my lunch and that they would just have

to wait until I finished my lunch. Charlie became very anxious and

upset at my refusal to leave everything behind to rush back to the

hotel to meet Mr. Abelson. Again, I told him he was free to go

back to the hotel himself, but I was staying. A half-hour later, I 

[page 10]

arrived back at the hotel to meet a very angry Mr Abelson at which

time I made a derisive joke about egotistical attorneys and said

that I ran my own show, not him.

    20. Mr. Abelson then informed me that there was someone

in the other room that I had asked to be present and Mike Rinder

came out of the room and shook hands with me.  It was a startling

and very emotional moment coming face-to-face with the high-level

Scientology executive that I had physically confronted in Los

Angeles during the German documentary filming (which was filmed and

aired to an audience of millions in Europe) and that I had words

with several times during the filming (as we were intensively

pursued and shadowed by Scientology members and private

investigators working for the Church) .

    21.  My feelings and emotions for Mike Rinder are very

conflicted.  In his position as International Director for the 

Church of Scientology International's Office of Special Affairs

(OSA), which was formerly known as the Guardian's Office and is

widely regarded as the church's intelligence division, Mr. Rinder

would be very aware of the hurtful activities that have been played

out against me in pursuit of the church's Fair Game policy. On the

other hand, I am unexplainably moved to respect Mr Rinder in a

mixture of fear, affinity and confusion.

22. Mr Rinder said that he had wanted to ask me some

direct questions in addition to those asked by Ken Long and Elliot

Abelson.  I invited him to ask anything that he wanted. During our

interview, Mr. Rinder expressed frustration, gave me a sheet of

paper and asked me to talk about how the Clearwater Police

Department acted in concert with the anti-scientology picketers 

NEXT (end of this affidavit)


>Subject: LMT: Trust and Good Faith
>From: Joe's Garage
>Date: 8/2/00 6:46 PM Central


>Let's go back to a previous similar incident, back, back to Scarff, a
>wonderful OSA "defector" who said what everybody wanted to hear when he
>first "defected" from OSA. Wasn't he terrific telling about how he was
>told to commit MURDER for Scientology? Everybody really liked that, but then
Scarff Scarffed out and said he would sue the German TV station if they
broadcast the blubberling Scarff show again. Did Scarff end up striking a
decisive blow to the heart of the enemy? It depends on if you
>believed him or not.

>One good thing about Scarff is that now we can honestly say that an OSA
>defector has given sworn testimony that he was part of a SCIENTOLOGY
>MURDER PLOT. Even if the whole thing was a lie, nobody can prove it

>one way or another. So he can be taken at his word, stipulating that
>is what is being done. In other words, it would be improper to say that
>Scientology plotted to murder its critics, but it is perfectly OK, and
>perhaps even beneficial to say that an OSA "defector" has given sworn
>testimony that he was part of a Scientology murder plot.

>Joe Cisar:

Joe, I would like to comment on this.

There is an extensive Gary Scarff Declaration which goes into quite a bit of
detail on the scientology plot to murder Cynthia Kisser. I worked in the CAN
office as a staff member and there are details in his Declaration that only a
CAN person or someone who had CAN and Kisser under surveilance would know. I
have communicated privately with Scarff on this matter and he has provided
other details which make me a believer.
In this Scarff Declaration the other scientologists alleged to be involved in
this are named. Not one of them has ever refuted Scarff's statements. A
Chicago Scientologist, Randy Kretchmar, was named by Scarff aas an accomplice
and Kretchmar has never denied or refuted in any way this charge. I am part of
a project which is writing up a report on the harassment, destruction, and
takeover of CAN. This alleged murder plot will be in this report. I recently
contacted Randy Kretchmar asked to meet with him as I wanted to provide him
with the opportunity to refute these charges or tell his side of it. Kretchmar
has refused to meet with me or to communicate about this. His wife is also a
scientologist and I have written to her and asked her directly if she knew of
this plot. She is a major contributor to the 'War Chest'.

I have read papers that were in the CAN Files that were written by Gary Scarff
and I believe that he was recruited for this plot and other infiltration
activities against CAN. Scarff was a young guy with family difficulties and
who really wanted to go to a Seminary. He did go and got into a hassle the
result of which he either left or was asked to leave. Somewhere in this he
wondered into scientology's waiting arms and they saw a young naive guy that
they could use for their sick purposes. He never really did much in the way of
scientology courses as they right off enlisted in in their schemes against CAN.
They knew that if Scarff got caught they could distance themselves from him and
say, "well, he is not a scientologist and he took no courses etc. here...."
They set him up to infiltrate some anti-cult people in Seattle or Portland,
they had him infiltrate CAN as a 'Jonestown' survivor. Both of these
operations were briefly successful and did a lot of damage to CAN and some
persons in the anti-cult arena. I'm not sure of the time line in all of this
but somewhere in this they sent him off to Chicago where a surveillance team
had tracked Cynthia Kissers' daily route and activities. Scarff says in his
Declaration that Kretchmar was to meet Scarff and help him cut the brake lines
on Kisser's car. They knew what kind of car she had and a lot of small detail.
They were to follow Kisser to ensure that she had an accident.

This plan was aborted for some reason. According to Scarff, Chicago Org staff
members, Alan Brooks and Mary Anne Ahmad, knew about this plan. I don't think
that the scientology higherups, like Moxon and Weiland, ever actually thought
that Laurel and Hardy would bring off this scheme but if they did...what a big
win. The evil Cynthia Kisser would be out of the picture and scientology could
continue on with its mission to Clear the planet If they got caught...well,
one was not a scientologist, "we don't have him in our records" and the "other
was a bad apple and we got rid of him."

It is easy without having access to certain details and materials to discount
Gary Scarff's claims. However, having looked into it from an inside view, so
to speak, I believe him. I did not want to believe the disclosures about the
CAN spy, Jolie Steckart, who used the stolen identity of Laura Terepin but when
I took a good look at it, her perfidy was undeniable.

There is a great deal of information that is slowly surfacing about the Church
of Scientology's plan the destroy CAN. It is nasty, ugly stuff. The Chicago
Org is revealed to be much deeper involved than previously known.

I believe that Gary Scarff was telling the truth on this and that he has more
information that he has not revealed. I believe that he has not revealed this
information because he is under some kind of threat f rom the cult.


"Q. Now, at this early Sunday morning meeting on or about November 17, 1991,
which I think is when you testified it occurred --"

A. It occurred very late at night and it was after midnight so that's why I
said Sunday morning versus Saturday night as previously stated on the record.

"Q. What was said at that meeting by whom? "

A. First David Butterworth recalled my meeting with him. Just prior to that it
was like two and a half weeks prior to that when I first met him at the Cult
Awareness Network conference in Oklahoma City and he recalled our conversation
where I asked him if I was doing all I could to meet their conditions of
amending my past where I was not obedient and where I had cursed the Church of
Scientology and where I had made up lies to hurt the Church of Scientology when
I was angry at the world and he said there was one more thing that they wanted
to do. And it was something that would ultimately bring down the Cult Awareness
Network. "They said that up to that point that everything they had tried to do
was not successful and that they wanted to get rid of Cynthia Kisser once and
for all because she was the whole reason that the Cult Awareness Network
existed. She was the wglueW that held it together and if they could get rid of
Cynthia Kisser once and for all that there would be no one there competent
enough to replace her. wAnd it was Eugene Ingram that said that Priscilla
Coates might step in but that the "old broad" was "not intelligent enough or
didn't have enough time on her hands or something to that effect that she would
be able to walk in and take over for Cynthia Kisser. "So in order to destroy
the Cult Awareness Network all we had to do was destroy Cynthia Kisser. And I
assumed when he said this that he meant simply attacking her credibility as
they have done in the past but doing it with much more vigor than they have
done so in the past.

"Q. What else was said at that conversation, at that meeting? "

A. Only that they talked to me about the specific operation where, if I
performed this operation that if L. Ron was still alive he would be honored to
have me at his side and that Mr. Ingram informed me that David Miscavige was
personally aware of this operation and considered it an honorable role on my
behalf, would welcome me with open arms if I was to perform this operation, and
then we got into the specifics of what they wanted me to do. wQ. And were the
specifics what you testified about with regard to Cynthia Kisser just before
the break -- let me withdraw the question. | "What were the specifics of the
operation very briefly? [ "

A. The specifics of the operation was for me to fly to Chicago O'Hare Airport,
rent a vehicle | with the information provided to me by the Office of Special
Affairs in Los Angeles and the [ OSA in Chicago particularly with the tools
provided to me by Randy Kretchmar, who is an | official of the OSA in Chicago,
to follow Cynthia Kisser home, run her off the road and take [ all steps
necessary to render Cynthia Kisser dead. | "It was also discussed for a greater
impact in these events that if someone within the Cult | Awareness Network got
smart enough to replace Cynthia with someone else, and that if Cynthia Kisser
had her daughter with her, it would be an added benefit to kill Cynthia Kisser
| and to kill her daughter as well, because when a child dies it carries a
greater impact in the ; minds of the public than if simply an adult dies, and
that would send a message to the Cult }Awareness Network that it was time to
end their hatred toward whom they perceived to be }cults. nQ Now, was Gene
Ingraun present at that meeting? "

A. He was present, yes.

"Q. did he say anything at that meeting? | "

A. Yes, he did. He told me that there was absolutely no way that I could be
held l accountable if I -- there is no way I could be caught -- first of all,
that immediately after I did l it I was to fly back to Los Angeles and that Mr.
Ingram would be responsible for putting me l into to a safe house and if need
be, he could ferret me out of the country to Brazil or Mexico l City or one of
the other places that they have established safe houses at. And that they would
l keep me there until the steam blew off or until Bowles & Moxon was successful
enough in l impeding any type of legal investigation towards me and that I
would be held not accountable l for these crimes, and it was specifically
discussed that they would put me into hiding and that l any type of criminal
investigation that was pending towards me, any type of legal investigation l
that may have started as a result of this murder, that Bonvles & Moxon would
step in and l throw so many legal maneuvers at the courts that there is no way
that I would be eventually l prosecuted for this crime. And Eugene laughed and
said that --he said, 'Trust me. I mean the court dockets are so overloaded
right now, if Bowles & Moxon was to throw all these legal maneuvers at the
courts there do be absolutely no way that prosecutors would find the time to
want to prosecute you for something like this. ' "And then we got into
discussions that -- what would happen if the authorities did charge me with a
crime, if there was the possibility of them catching up to me and if what he
said was going to happen as security precautions did not work, that's when he
mentioned that I could TKO.

"Q. And what is TKO? "

A. I didn't know if it was a Scientology phrase or it is something that Eugene
Ingram used in law enforcement. Is it a law enforcement term? I don't know. But
he told me that TKO was -- and he showed me with his hand. It is not something
that he just told me.

"Q. What did you take him to mean by this? "

A. I asked him and he said that I could just end my life and that all it takes
is a gun shot in the mouth. And -- I mean he was very specific in telling me
that unlike what you see on

television where people simply stick the barrel into the mouth and pull the
trigger, that l sometimes people will not die as a result of that because you
have to sever your spinal cord l when you shoot into your mouth to kill
yourself. So he suggested sticking it up towards the l gums so it blows my
brains out. Therefore, my brain would not -- he got into technical side of l
suicide, and the fact that if you blow your brains out you may not die right
away but at least l your brain ceases to function and you don't have pain. He
says it is a very quick, easy way to end your life.

"Q. You mentioned earlier that someone had said that L. Ron Hubbard would be
pleased to have you at his side. Did you have any understanding of what was
meant by that statement? "


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